Capitalism's Failures in Hong Kong

Discussion in 'Asia' started by georgephillip, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    Is this your idea of a freedom fighter?
    [​IMG]
    Our Debt to Central American Refugees - Democratic Socialists of America (DSA)
     
  2. JGalt
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    JGalt Platinum Member

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    Yes it does. I helped train more than several South and Central American military personnel the joys of killing communists with artillery, when I served under him.

    Ever see what a 105mm HE round can to do communists?
     
  3. Dont Taz Me Bro
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    Dont Taz Me Bro USMB Mod Staff Member Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I'm not even wasting my time on you...... Jesus Christ..... :icon_rolleyes:
     
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  4. Kilroy2
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    Kilroy2 Silver Member

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    Well this is another problem created by the UN of which the US is a part of.

    The Israel/Palestinian problem

    now the Hong Kong problem

    have come to a boil

    They were removed from the non self governing territories which gave basically gave China the right to reclaim Hong Kong

    Obvious it is a thorny issue but so was the US civil war when the South tried to succeed from the Union

    The civil rights movement was both nonviolent and violent

    The Vietnam protest

    I wonder what would have happen if a foreign country had intervene in what is a civil internal matter
    I would like to see China have a dialogue and see if some agreements can be reached before it becomes bloody but both sides needs to keep it non violent

    Ultimately it is a internal civil matter
     
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  5. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    Aspects of Democracy like universal suffrage seem to be at the heart of this dispute?

    Democratic development in Hong Kong - Wikipedia

    "Other democracy-related issues involving human rights and universal suffrage (in this case the right to elect Hong Kong leaders through general elections under universal suffrage with no curtailment from the central government of China) became the new focal point for the pro-democracy camp.

    "Ever since the 1950s, the Chinese government has continually threatened the British over any attempts to bring about democratic development in Hong Kong.

    "Attempts to bring Hong Kong citizens to the negotiating table by the British during the Sino-Anglo discussions were rejected by Beijing in the late 1980s.

    "The last governor Chris Patten faced a great deal of opposition in changing the former colony's political system."

    HK protesters frequently wave UK and US flags during demonstrations, but ongoing trade negotiations make it unlikely any western state will take sides.
     
  6. Kilroy2
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    Kilroy2 Silver Member

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    China even though it is a communist political system has embraced private ownership

    Under Mao it was a disaster

    The new regime has kept some things that are communist in nature but has open up free enterprise as their is now private ownership in a communist country

    People seems to be free to leave the country

    Yes politically they silence opposition, have an authoritarian leader, and free speech is anemic

    So Honk Kong seems to like its free speech and does not want to give that up

    Yet in the US we have free speech

    Certainly we can say anything within reason but that has lead to lies and misinformation that can be spoken with impunity

    and people will believe it because it supports their world view

    Truth is fake news depending on what float your on

    Fake news is truth

    Free speech, you just gotta love it
     
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  7. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    Many Hong Kong protesters are looking ahead 28 years to 2047; that's when their "borrowed time" relationship with China is slated to end.

    The "one country, two systems" formula arranged between Beijing and London that allows Hong Kong to function somewhat independently of China will end, and many in Hong Kong fear the worst, possibly with good reasons since the Communist Party on the mainland (fueled by capitalism) controls many aspects of society, including the media and courts.


    Hong Kong campus siege almost over, but the violence and anger is here to stay - CNN
    [​IMG]
    "Hanging over the escalating unrest is the potential threat of military intervention.

    "On Saturday, soldiers from one of Hong Kong's People's Liberation Army (PLA) barracks were seen helping local residents clean up surrounding streets.

    "The presence of the troops on the streets, despite being unarmed and wearing workout gear -- unnerved many Hong Kong residents and pro-democracy legislators, even as it was cheered by pro-Beijing newspapers and on Chinese social media.

    "Analysts agree that a military intervention could severely damage Hong Kong's economy and might spark an exodus from the city.

    "Speaking Tuesday, Lam said it was 'not uncommon' for PLA troops to engage in voluntary activities."
     
  8. Kilroy2
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    Kilroy2 Silver Member

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    So the question is

    Is it really that different from what it is now

    The HK government seems to be close to the mainland China government and cooperate with it

    Sure there appears to be some autonomy but is it real or an illusion

    You are probably right that those in HK know that times is running out and if they want their own country, best to do it before the deadline

    But it would be interesting to get numbers of those who really fear the mainland taking over vs those who just accept that it is inevitable

    Civil war is not pretty and I cannot see how they can win (HK who want independence) unless the UN goes to bat for them and try to pressure the mainland into granting them independence or striking up a new timeline for the inevitable
     
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  9. georgephillip
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    georgephillip Platinum Member Supporting Member

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    I don't think any agent on the planet can interfere with China's intentions towards Hong Kong. Imho, China is the state capitalism was created for, and the Chinese believe the 21st century belongs to them.

    In Warning to Hong Kong’s Courts, China Shows Who Is Boss

    "BEIJING — After months of relative restraint, China’s Communist government this week took its most decisive steps to intervene in Hong Kong’s political crisis, signaling a more forceful response that could further inflame tensions in the Chinese territory.

    "China’s top legislative body, the National People’s Congress, warned that it would use its authority, if necessary, to overrule the territory’s judiciary.

    "It followed a Hong Kong court’s ruling on Monday overturning a contentious ban on wearing face masks, which protesters have used to shield their identities from the police."
     
  10. okfine
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    okfine VIP Member

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    Have you read Foreign Policy lately?

    "As an individual, Trump has always been an unreliable peg for China hawks to hang their hopes on. He has absolutely zero interest in human rights and free speech. His own instincts are authoritarian, as he has repeatedly shown through his support for torture, pardons of war criminals, and attacks on the press. He is barely even able to pretend that he cares; he goes after China out of protectionist instincts, not political principle."

    Donald Trump’s America Can’t Fight Xi Jinping’s China
     
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