Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by GreatestIam, Sep 14, 2019.

  1. GreatestIam
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    GreatestIam VIP Member

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    Did god really condemn mankind? Is god a just god?


    God’s condemnation is quite severe. Hell and death, if you are a literalist believer.


    Meanwhile, scriptures say that the penalty for sin is closer to what we generally view as justice. That justice being an eye for an eye. This means that the penalty is close to the severity of the sin. If I kill, I earn death. If I steal, I only forfeit my wealth. I do not earn death. This justice seems fair to me.


    Since few of us ever kill, few of us should earn hell and death. Yet scriptures indicate that the vast majority of our souls end in hell and death, while only the few reach heaven.


    Can god be just if he exceeds the good justice standard that the bible, god’s WORD, claims is just?


    There is no doubt that we are all sinners. Be that condition, imposed by god or nature, is forced upon us at birth.


    If you think you have been condemned to hell and death and need a savior, can you tell us what sin of yours earned you hell and death?


    Thanks.


    Regards

    DL
     
  2. Third Party
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    Third Party Gold Member

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    Sorry, don't believe we are sinners.
     
  3. GreatestIam
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    GreatestIam VIP Member

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    Because you reject the word sin due to not being a believer, or because you do not think you have even cause harm to another?

    Regards
    DL
     
  4. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    I think when people say that G-d is pretty severe, they only are looking at one side of G-d.

    Consider for a moment the other side..... Jesus came, to literally take that punishment on himself.

    Think about that.... and he did this for people that hated him.

    While people tend to quick to say G-d was harsh, how do you explain that he then accepted that very punishment on himself, so that we didn't have to face it?

    Would you do that?

    If a man raped and killed your daughter, would you then send your son to sit on the electric chair to take his punishment, so the murdering rapist could live?

    No, and I most certainly would not do that either.

    And yet Jesus came to die for us, in our place in punishment, so that we can live.

    Can we at least be fair in how we view G-d, from both sides? Not just punishment, but also his mercy?
     
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  5. Andylusion
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    Andylusion Gold Member

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    Really. You have never thought anything evil? Lied or deceived someone? Said something hurtful or cruel to anyone? You have lived an utterly perfect life, right to this very moment?

    Very impressive.
     
  6. Third Party
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    Third Party Gold Member

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    You have positive and negative, not good and evil. Any harm you do will be revisited upon you in equal amounts. Sin is somebody's else's idea wrong.
     
  7. Third Party
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    That is YOUR concept of evil-not mine
     
  8. GreatestIam
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    Thanks for this.

    You are a Jew, I take it, from your prose.

    I have a piece I usually give to Christians that actually promotes the better thinking that Jews usually have. You do not seem to share that trait in this case. No insult intended.

    If you can take that little jab, and you wish to read and respond to the following, we can perhaps get back to the main issue of what justice should be.
    -----------

    On Jesus dying for you.

    You have swallowed a lie and don’t care how evil you make Jesus to keep your feel good get out of hell free card.

    It is a lie, first and foremost because, like it or not, having another innocent person suffer or die for the wrongs you have done, --- so that you might escape responsibility for having done them, --- is immoral. To abdicate your personal responsibility for your actions or use a scapegoat is immoral.

    You also have to ignore what Jesus, as a Jewish Rabbi, would have taught his people.

    Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.

    Deuteronomy 24:16 (ESV) "Fathers shall not be put to death because of their children, nor shall children be put to death because of their fathers. Each one shall be put to death for his own sin.

    Psa 49;7 None of them can by any means redeem his brother, nor give to God a ransom for him:

    There is no way that you would teach your children to use a scapegoat to escape their just punishments and here you are doing just that.

    Jesus is just a smidge less immoral than his demiurge genocidal father, and here you are trying to put him as low in moral fibre as Yahweh. Satan applauds you though as you are doing her work.

    Andylusion

    Let me end with saying that I think Jewry was well on it's way to a decent and moral view of god before Christianity usurped your god and reversed some of the morals of the story in the O.T./Torah.

    I give Jewry a passing mark while I give Christianity/Jewry 2.0 a fail and Islam/Jewry 3.0 and even worse mark.

    Regards
    DL
     
  9. GreatestIam
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    Sin is considered evil even if you do not like the term.

    How do you get to think equal amount will always find a perpetrator?

    If I kill you, where is the equal amount?

    Regards
    DL
     
  10. ding
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    ding Confront reality

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    No. God did not condemn mankind. Mankind did.

    Yes, God is just.
     
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