CDZ Do you think Nikki Haley is lying about Tillerson and Kelly?

Discussion in 'Clean Debate Zone' started by MarathonMike, Nov 12, 2019.

  1. JimBowie1958
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    JimBowie1958 Old Fogey

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    There are differing levels of trust.
    I put my wife at a 10, my kids at a 9, the police at an 8, judges at a 3, reporters at a 2 and politicians at a minus infinity.

    Some politicians do somehow acquire a conscience, integrity and good character. I think it is the result of a cross species DNA transmission.

    Or they were nonpoliticians that crossed into politics.
     
  2. Natural Citizen
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    Natural Citizen Platinum Member

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    I dunno. She's definitely positioning herself for something in 2024, though.
     
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  3. Daryl Hunt
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    Daryl Hunt Your Worst Nightmare Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I don't think Nikki is making things up. It's pretty common knowledge that sometimes, some cabinet members would shield Rump and block him from making some really, really bad calls. Some would outright refuse. Of course, their days would be numbered. We aren't privy to the going on in such a chaotic world that Rump demands revolves around him. So I wouldn't be surprised at what she claims.

    Now for something else. If Nikki Hayley were to run for President today, I would vote for her hands down. She's tough, to the point and won't take any crap. Like Rump, she seems to not have much of a filter but the difference is, her brain isn't made of mush. And, unlike Rump, I am sure she would surround herself with honest career advisors and she would at least listen to them. There are a lot of reason I would vote for Nikki and I hope I get the chance to voice those if and when she decides to run for President.
     
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  4. Kilroy2
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    Kilroy2 Silver Member

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    Why would she lie as in the current world you will never get away with it

    well you will have those who believe what they want to believe

    Tillson and Kelly both could have come out and say that she did lie but they remain silent because there is nothing else to say
     
  5. Olde Europe
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    Olde Europe Diamond Member

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    Did you even understand the problem, Pogo? Articles of Impeachment are probably going to be filed in January. Then the Senate has their trial. I'd expect that to take until March, or even April. In the unlikely event the Senate convicts, Haley enters the race in April with no money, no campaign staff, filing deadlines for the primaries long past, and quite a few primaries, too. I am asking again, how does she get into the race? That train, it appears to me, is leaving the station right now, and she'll definitely miss it.

    On the second, Haley declared Trump "truthful". If you don't expect world-class mendacity from her, I really don't know what to say.

    Think about it: Do you actually believe, Kelly and Tillerson approached Haley, "Hi Nikki, wanna join a conspiracy to undermine the incompetent goof?" I, for one, find that hard to believe. Much rather, they tried to recruit her into a joint effort to talk Trump out of some horribly ill-conceived foreign policy notions, speaking with one voice, emphasizing the dangers facing the country. So, yeah, I am pretty sure she lied in her depiction of the event.
     
  6. Olde Europe
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    Olde Europe Diamond Member

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    Kelly:

    “If by resistance and stalling she means putting a staff process in place…to ensure the [President] knew all the pros and cons of what policy decision he might be contemplating so he could make an informed decision, then guilty as charged,” Kelly told CBS News in response to Haley’s account.​


    Tillerson:

    Mr. Kelly disputed Ms. Haley in a statement on Sunday and Mr. Tillerson added his own refutation on Monday. “During my service to our country as the secretary of state, at no time did I, nor to my direct knowledge did anyone else serving along with me, take any actions to undermine the president,” Mr. Tillerson said in a statement.

    While he offered Mr. Trump frank advice, he said, once the president made a decision, he did his best to carry it out. “Ambassador Haley was rarely a participant in my many meetings and is not in a position to know what I may or may not have said to the president,” Mr. Tillerson added.​
     
  7. Pogo
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    Pogo Diamond Member

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    Again, I'm simply declining to rule it out in the context of "never say never". Suppose in the near-term future some revelation comes out that even Rump can't shake off, suppose he literally does shoot someone on Fifth Avenue, suppose he drops dead from hamberder heart disease. In any of those events the Republican Party would be scrambling to come up with a candidate (or else default to Pence which I doubt anybody thinks is a good idea). In that event it seems to me Haley would be on the short list. Not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. Given that scenario, who else?

    Is that scenario likely? Usually no. But this is Rump, anything can happen.

    As for what conversations Haley/Tillerson/Kelly had I'm not in a position to know, and I really don't care, which is why I haven't read her account. It's simply not important.
     
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  8. Olde Europe
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    Look, I am of a split mind on that. If Haley's book is the starting shot of a campaign, it has to be 2020. In 2024, the book will be forgotten and gather dust. I am trying to understand how that is going to work. You seem to suggest they will improvise and open up the primary process for latecomers. That seems somewhat plausible, but I can't remember having heard anything even remotely like that. Of course, in the events you describe, Pence will be the only one with a war chest and an organization for a presidential campaign. Or, Trump donates his campaign cash and "hands over" his staff to his "chosen" successor - provided he'll not raid the accounts on his way out.

    As to the Haley/Tillerson/Kelly thing, I just was astonished you professed not to expect mendacity of the kind we see from pretty much every notable Goober up to Conway, or even Trump, from Haley. My impression differs sharply from that.
     
  9. Kilroy2
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    Kilroy2 Silver Member

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    Well all they are saying that they provide pros and cons to the president and he made the final decision.

    Still even with pros and cons, you as a person have one that is preferable.
    You believe one is in the best interest of the US and the other would be detrimental to US policy and position in the world. You usually argue your point and for someone like Trump he doesn't like anyone who disagrees with him.

    There is a reason why both of them resigned or were forced out

    I would guess we will have to wait for the book to find out which one it was

    but as good solders they carry out the orders from above.

    is Haley lying, I wasn't in the room and do not know what was said

    Tillerson wants to keep his future options open and may seek future jobs. Basically saying that he offered pro and con arguments but was a team player.

    Still he does not offer why he left and as a team player he has nothing bad to say.

    He even misquoted Kelly as Kelly was a little ambiguous with his statement and took a middle road. As a General, I would expect that is what he would do. I believe that he is not going to lie so middle road is the best option.

    He uses the words stalling and resisting in a good way
     
  10. Olde Europe
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    Olde Europe Diamond Member

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    The main point is, kilroy, Tillerson and Kelly both have come out and did say, in so many words, Haley did lie, and they did not remain silent because they apparently thought there is something else to say. So, your claim was clearly wrong.

    Tillerson and Kelly are very, highly unlikely ever again to seek a political job, whereas Haley quite clearly does. It is reasonable to assume that her peculiar depiction of the meeting, and her throwing two have-beens under the bus, was supposed further that aim. So, she has the much more compelling rationale to lie, or at least exaggerate, to make herself look good in the eyes of her target audience, which is Trump and his "base".
     

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