Kashoggi Murder: Trump and Israel Defend MBS

Discussion in 'Middle East - General' started by Freeman, Oct 20, 2018.

  1. Freeman
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    Freeman VIP Member

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  2. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    What part of innocent until proven guilty bothers you the most?
     
  3. caddo kid
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    caddo kid BANNED

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    Nothing 'good' about the Khashoggi murder whatsoever.

    The Saudis are liars, Trump is a liar, Pompeo is a liar, so, we're dealing with a bunch of LIARS.

    Israel is just like the rest of the ME nations; they're all snakes in the grass.

    Who to believe, who is playing games, who is playing both sides?

    Any adult knows how this BS works.
     
  4. Maxdeath
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    Maxdeath Gold Member

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    So I am guessing that leaves you out.
     
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  5. saveliberty
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    saveliberty Diamond Member

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    As far as game playing goes, it is you and you alone.
     
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  6. Tipsycatlover
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    Tipsycatlover Platinum Member

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    Who is the killer? You have an identity. Who?
     
  7. Freeman
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    Freeman VIP Member

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    It's clear that is the silliest murder in history by a bloody dictatorship even if Trump tries to cover it.
     
  8. peacefan
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    peacefan VIP Member

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    i hope this style of post can be tolerated just this once, or better yet, that it's allowed to do this :

    ---------- Forwarded message ---------
    From: Peacefan Netherlands <peacefan.netherlands@gmail.com>
    Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2018 at 16:24
    Subject: Kashoggi, and the wider picture. Summary : the wider picture has greater priority i think.
    To: CIA <info@cia.gov>, NSA <nsapao@nsa.gov>, <info@whitehouse.gov>
    Cc: US gov, Dutch gov, UK gov and Israeli gov, and selected US, Dutch and UK mass media outlets <peacefan.netherlands@gmail.com>, CIA <info@cia.gov>, NSA <nsapao@nsa.gov>, <comments@whitehouse.gov>, CNN <worldnews@cnn.com>, <info@msnbc.com>, <yourcomments@foxnews.com>, Mossad <info@gov.il>, <info@groenlinks.nl>, <christenunie@tweedekamer.nl>, <sgp@tweedekamer.nl>, <info@vvd.nl>, <info@pvv.nl>, <info@50pluspartij.nl>, <info@sp.nl>, <info@pvda.nl>, <d66@tweedekamer.nl>, NOS <reacties@nos.nl>, VandaagDeDag <tips@vandaagdedag.nu>, Donna Marrozos <redactie@3fm.nl>, VK Redactie <redactie@volkskrant.nl>, <info@telegraaf.nl>, <redactie@telegraaf.nl>, <info@trouw.nl>, <redactie@trouw.nl>, <info@nrc.nl>, <redactie@nrc.nl>, <info@parool.nl>, <redactie@parool.nl>, Team Nieuws.nl <redactie@nieuws.nl>, <redactie@ad.nl>, <gastbijdrage@sargasso.nl>, <info@conservatives.com>, Foreign and Commonwealth Office - Parliamentary Branch <PRTActioninfo@fco.gsi.gov.uk>, Foreign and Commonwealth Office - Correspondence Section <msu.correspondence@fco.gsi.gov.uk>, Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State - Alistair Burt MP <psministerburtaction@fco.gsi.gov.uk>, <info@labour.org.uk>, <letters@the-sun.co.uk>, <dtnews@telegraph.co.uk>, <stnews@telegraph.co.uk>, <guardian.letters@theguardian.com>, <observer.letters@observer.co.uk>, <news@dailystar.co.uk>, <foreign.news@thetimes.co.uk>, <newsdesk@independent.co.uk>, <mirrornews@mirror.co.uk>, <news@skynews.com>, <haveyoursay@bbc.co.uk>


    CIA Concludes Saudi Crown Prince Ordered Khashoggi Assassination

    3 minutes ago#28
    New
    Persian Gulf 1906 said:
    Huge news as the Washington Post is reporting that the CIA have concluded that Saudi Arabia's Crown Prince Mohammad -Bone Saw- Bin Salman ordered the brutal butchering and assassination of the US resident and journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

    "The CIA has concluded that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman ordered the assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Istanbul last month, contradicting the Saudi government’s claims that he was not involved in the killing, according to people familiar with the matter.

    The CIA’s assessment, in which officials have said they have high confidence, is the most definitive to date linking Mohammed to the operation and complicates the Trump administration’s efforts to preserve its relationship with a close ally. A team of 15 Saudi agents flew to Istanbul on government aircraft in October and killed Khashoggi inside the Saudi consulate, where he had come to pick up documents that he needed for his planned marriage to a Turkish woman.

    The CIA’s conclusion about Mohammed’s role was also based on the agency’s assessment of the prince as the country’s de facto ruler who oversees even minor affairs in the kingdom. “The accepted position is that there is no way this happened without him being aware or involved,” said a U.S. official familiar with the CIA’s conclusions."


    https://www.washingtonpost.com/worl...469f1166f9d_story.html?utm_term=.ea8ca262b044
    Click to expand...


    peacefan said in reply:
    while i normally wouldn't support "Saudi getting away with this grotesque murder", these are special times in the world, with right-wingers and autocrats leading some major countries all around the world at the same time, and these new right wing leaders making it clear (sometimes in grotesque memorable ways like with Kashoggi) that criticism on their policies, especially criticism that reaches large audiences, is no longer tolerated on punishment of assasination.
    i'm sure the critics, journalists, columnists, etc, etc, of the world have gotten the message, and will be more polite or even more silent in the coming years.

    i believe taking a firm stand against such trends, going to (media-)war over them, does not serve the needs of the wider public, whom generally speaking have little interest to get involved with any government policy anyway.

    north-america can't fuel their much-needed cars and trucks with shale oil found in north-america.
    we need a steady supply of middle eastern oil because it's so much easier to turn into transportation fuel.

    and we need a country with huge reserves of the stuff as a reliable ally who will give us reasonable prices and a near unlimited monthly quota at those prices. that's Saudi. it's not Iraq, it's not Iran, it's not Syria, etc, etc.

    so while i deplore what is happening to the Iranian people and the Yemeni people and the Syrian people, over powerplays between dictators like Assad and the Russian government, whom i can fully respect need a naval base of their own in Syria, considering the NATO fortress Turkey that is also the one way in and out of the Russian Black Sea (where they have a naval base in Crimea that's over 100 years old).....

    i also understand that in order to preserve global stability and the global price stability for vitally and always needed natural resources,
    people like me, freedom-, truth-, positive cultural change loving types,
    are going to have to accept that the world is currently run primarily by people who are capable of both lying and ruthlessness,
    and that this is going to result perhaps in a few more casualties like Kashoggi (maybe even in The Phillipines, Egypt or even Brazil) and wars like the one ongoing in Yemen and Syria at the moment, lasting longer than they should in the opinions of people like me.

    i do emplore all these new right-wing, often-lying, world-leaders, to show the decency of at least really trying at all times to keep (proxy-)wars and trade-wars and arms-races nice and short. To make a persistent effort towards that end, together and in collaboration with liberals/left-wingers/centrists of course. You do any of that in a prolonged fashion instead, you're likely to end up hurting your own economy and definitely your legacy and reputation.

    the less the left has to clean up after the right has finsihed up their terms in office,
    the greater the shine on the time in office of the right,
    and the greater the likelyhood that the entire "left" and "center" of the political communities in countries around the world, can get used to often-lying right-wingers leading (large) countries.

    if you screw up too badly, right-wingers, if you don't care about collateral damage like is happening in Syria, Yemen, Libya, etc, etc, then you force the left to try to take over power from you for real. It would be much better if we can work together as a complementary team.
     
  9. BlackFlag
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  10. RoccoR
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    RoccoR Gold Member

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    RE: Kashoggi Murder: Trump and Israel Defend MBS
    ※→ BlackFlag, Freeman, et al,

    Oh, I don't know about this.

    (COMMENT)

    I don't have insider information on this. But, I wonder if these sorts of speculations are accurate.
    What pressure is "Congress" applying?
    What "Israeli Lobby" is attempting to influence the prevailing opinion on the "MBS killer?"
    ■ And what direction is the "Israeli Lobby" trying to push the opinion?
    ■ Who is running point on this Khashoggi matter?
    ■ What "Members of Congress" have been approached by the "Israeli Lobby?"​
    What actual attempts to "save MBS killer" can you cite?​

    On the matter of, maintaining the constant war in the Mideast. What makes you think that "Trump and Israel" have some sort of constant return on some unidentified investment they have made? (And please, don't give that same old lame duck military-industrial complex argument.ª)

    The Top 10 Weapon Exporting Countries in the World ...
    1. United States
    2. Russia
    3. Germany
    4. France
    5. China
    6. United Kingdom
    7. Italyº
    8. Israel
    9. Sweden
    10. Ukraine
    Of course, you will see the economic superpowers in the mix, fighting for the Number One position. But you also see some unexpected players in the military-industrial feeding frenzy in the Middle East.

    What it is all about is the unspoken truth... No one in the Middle East wants to admit that the release into the General Arab Population --- the hundreds of unrestrained potential security threats into the region. While not every Arab Palestinian is a security threat, there are ≈ 700K refugees spread across 19 Refugee Camps. If only two tenths of 1% (a fraction of a fraction) have taken to the indoctrination and training by the various hostile groups (Jihadist, Fedayeen Activist, Hostile Insurgents, Radicalized Islamic Followers, and Asymmetric Fighters), that would mean that there would be a sudden release of well over a thousand Hostile Arab Palestinians. I think Israel still has more than 2000 terrorist still in penal custody. Not even the Arab League wants to see 3000+ Hostile Arab Palestinians released create havoc. The external viewers in the region remain silent because they don't believe that the Arab Palestinian can live in peace with its neighbors (no matter what they say}.




    Footnote:
    ---------------------------------------------
    ψ Central Source Link
    ª The volume of arms exported by the United States to Asia and Oceania accounts to 45% while the Middle East receives 27 % and 18% for Europe. From 2008-2012, 62% of the volumes of U.S. supplies were aircraft, which included 49 combat aircraft, two of which are F-35s delivered to the United Kingdom. Other significant recipients of the U.S. weapons are Iraq and Afghanistan receiving 4% each of the U.S. exports. The U.S. delivered a substantial number of light armored vehicles, tanks and 36 F-16 combat aircraft to Iraq.

    º Italy has a major arms deal with Israel where the country promised to buy at least 1 billion dollars worth of Israeli military equipment. In return, Israel will be purchasing thirty Italian M-346 Master jets. Italy’s deal with Israel is important, especially that its economy is unstable.

    Most Respectfully,
    R
     

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