Let's talk about LIES

Discussion in 'Religion and Ethics' started by DGS49, Jan 21, 2020.

  1. DGS49
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    DGS49 Gold Member

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    A "lie" is a statement that, when uttered, the speaker knows to be false.

    Actual lies are very rare in politics; usually, it's something somewhat different.

    When Bush-43 told us that Saddam was hoarding WMD's, he was relying on information furnished to him by others. Of course, he WANTED this to be true (for reasons not here relevant), but his assertions were not lies.

    Recently, our Exalted President told us that there were no American "casualties" resulting from the Iranian. bombing of our air base. Later, it turned out that a small number of American soldiers had symptoms of a possible concussion, and were removed for observation. The NYT - a notoriously anti-Trump rag - accused the President of "lying" about American casualties. But of course the information about the concussion symptoms came out 2-3 days after Trump's public statements, so they were not lies. Period.

    When President Clinton told us that he did not "have sexual relations" with the infamous intern, his statement was, according to common usage at the time, factually true. Being the recipient of a BJ was/is not having sexual relations. [Subsequently, the Gay Mafia decreed that both giving and receiving "head" are indeed "having sexual relations," so, perversely, that group insists that Clinton lied, which is false].

    When President Trump told us that his inaugural was "viewed by more people than any other President in history," he was making a factual assertion about something that was literally not knowable. There is no way to track the total, considering those present in person, those watching on television, those "streaming" the events at home and/or at work, and so on. Was it a "lie"? Reasonable people could differ on the question.

    The recent brouhaha about Joe Biden "wanting to cut Social Security" is a Gordian knot of lies. In 2018, Paul Ryan - then Speaker of the House - suggested that it was time to address the role of entitlements in the burgeoning deficit. Nothing specific was said about Social Security, but it is well known that Ryan was mainly speaking of SS and Medicare. When this sort of statement is made by a Republican, it is IMMEDIATELY branded by Democrats and the Media as "REPUBLICANS WANT TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY." Of course, the facts are somewhat different. The initiatives on the table are always the same: (a) increase the limit on earnings from which SS is deducted, (b) incrementally raise the retirement age, and (c) adjust the formula for COLA. NOBODY EVER suggests cutting Social Security checks. It would be political suicide. But when Ryan brought up the subject, Joe Biden said something in support of his having the courage even to bring it up. Now Crazy Bernie claims that BIDEN WANTS TO CUT SOCIAL SECURITY! Where do you even start evaluating all the lies in this kerfuffle?

    The President has at various times indicated that he will release his tax returns when some future event occurs..."after I'm elected," or "when the audit is complete," or "when the time is right." It is now obvious that he doesn't intend to release them ever, voluntarily. Were these previous statements lies? Possibly, but we can never know. Even if he did intend to release them "later" it is likely that he assumed he would never actually win the election so would get off the hook that way. It is possible that he expected to be able to release some years of returns, but after elected realized the intensity of the hate that the Democrats and Media have for him, and then decided it would be a disaster to expose himself to the expected level of scrutiny, both honest and dishonest. Didn't lie, just changed his mind. Nobody knows.

    Lefties enjoy being able to claim that President Trump has "lied" thousands of times. There are many websites that actually compile and count the "lies." I would like to see a short list of lies by Donald Trump, according to the standard of the first sentence of this thread. Then we can look closely and see if they are truly lies, or just manifestations of TDS.
     
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  2. miketx
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    miketx Diamond Member

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    Best response yet.
     
  3. RodISHI
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    RodISHI Gold Member

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    For you won't unintentionally lie or misinform others you should read and know the legal definitions of a sexual act.

    18 U.S. Code § 2246 - Definitions for chapter
    ...
    (2) the term “sexual act” means—
    (A)
    contact between the penis and the vulva or the penis and the anus, and for purposes of this subparagraph contact involving the penis occurs upon penetration, however slight;

    (B)
    contact between the mouth and the penis, the mouth and the vulva, or the mouth and the anus;

    (C)
    the penetration, however slight, of the anal or genital opening of another by a hand or finger or by any object, with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, degrade, or arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person; or

    (D)
    the intentional touching, not through the clothing, of the genitalia of another person who has not attained the age of 16 years with an intent to abuse, humiliate, harass, degrade, or arouse or gratify the sexual desire of any person;
    (3) the term “sexual contact” means the intentional touc...
     
  4. BreezeWood
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    BreezeWood VIP Member

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    did you purposely chose that example - to make a point, don't lie ...

    casualties do not wait to make their presence known they knew immediately after the bombing how many were hurt - trump relished in his lie to his audience and they knew perfectly well he was lying and voraciously applauded ... op must live in a monastery built on mars.

    what is typical of liars is choosing a pathological liar to persuad others it isn't true.
     
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  5. Dr Grump
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    Dr Grump Gold Member

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    Oh, I thought this was a thread about Trump's tweets...
     
  6. Crepitus
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    Crepitus Gold Member

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    That isn't what he said.

    You lied.
     

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