People are poor because (not what the Leftists tell you).

Discussion in 'Politics' started by AzogtheDefiler, Dec 3, 2019.

  1. Ray From Cleveland
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    Ray From Cleveland Diamond Member

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    If we had unions, my employer would have closed the business decades ago. The reason we are open today is because we never had a union, and don't want one either. During the recession, many other trucking companies closed down. We survived; barely, but we made it through.
     
  2. Dragonlady
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    Dragonlady Designing Woman

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    Well you've certainly drunk the Republican Kool-Aid haven't you.

    The rise of the union movement in the USA coincides with the rise of the American Middle Class. That's not an accident, that's "cause and effect". For the first time in history, workers had a voice in negotiating with their employers for wages and working conditions. A thriving middle class is necessary to a healthy successful economy, and the union movement helped create that thriving middle class.

    But Reagan killed the goose that laid the golden egg, because Reagan believed in Milton Friedman's unfettered free market economics which said that anything that restricted the "free market" was bad. Reagan destroyed the American union movement, and with it, worker wages began to stagnate, and the Middle Class is no longer thriving.

    In the EU and Canada, where the union movement is still alive and well, our middle class is still thriving and growing, and our wages are going up.
     
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  3. Ray From Cleveland
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    Ray From Cleveland Diamond Member

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    So where is it written that the only reason Walmart can pay their employees that wage is because of government programs? Show me where this is written.

    If we got rid of every social program today, Walmart would still pay the wages they've always paid. No business creates a wage based on what government does. Businesses don't care what government does with social programs. It doesn't affect them one way or the other.

    You want to blame Walmart for the mistake we made by allowing social programs to subsidize those who don't want to work, or work very little. Guess what? Those programs have been with us before Walmart.
     
  4. Ray From Cleveland
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    Ray From Cleveland Diamond Member

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    And that's why your unemployment rate is almost double ours.
     
  5. sparky
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    sparky Gold Member

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    One can use the wayback machine to find the exact same stance during our gilded age Ray

    oh and, fwiw, i was a teamster before i was a spark ,in fact worked a number of trucking outfits , union & non union.

    the difference was phenomenal, and big box stores KNOW it

    Walmart's War Against Unions -- and the U.S. Laws That Make It Possible | HuffPost

    Group accuses Wal-Mart of illegal anti-union tactics

    How America's Largest Employer Persuades Its Workers Not to Unionize



    My dearly departed union rep uncle would agree....

    ~S~
     
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  6. Ray From Cleveland
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    Ray From Cleveland Diamond Member

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    I won't deny unions once had a worth in this country, but so did the horseshoe maker and ice man.

    Unions might still be okay today if the unions of the past didn't get so greedy. And being in the transportation industry, I have dozens and dozens of union stories, some unbelievable, and some just plain ridiculous.

    But since you brought up trucking, years ago (when more unions were around) we were waiting to get into the dock. I started talking with a driver who belonged to a union company. He was thrilled that another last minute pickup came in that he didn't take. The union rules were that any OT offered must go to the most senior drivers first, and then down the line if they don't want the pickup.

    So what the union demanded is they offer it to this guy first, even though the pickup was clear across the other side of town. It was cheaper to have the driver in the area make the pickup, and have to pay the driver I was talking to as well. So he got paid for nothing.

    How can a company stay in business against any non-union company like ours, where my dispatcher would simply do what they did, and call a driver on the other side of town? There is no way to compete like that. I guess that's why they sold the company.
     
  7. danielpalos
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    danielpalos Diamond Member

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    Maybe in right wing fantasy. In the real world, the right wing prefers the "institutional downward pressure on wages for the Poor", with their "work or die" political-philosophy.
     
  8. sparky
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    sparky Gold Member

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    On that i have to agree with you Ray

    the teamsters ,in particular , undeniably had a long sketchy history

    power corrupts, and they serve as grand example.

    Further, we can cite many similar examples where some 'bloody do gooder' senario morphs into the same ends.

    This is why i don't always leap at the left's grandiose suggestions

    That said, i'll also not paint all that may be a good thing for the mid class w/broad brush

    Unions were a good thing, and could be good for American workers again

    How that sugars off is all about who holds the reins

    ~S~
     
  9. Ray From Cleveland
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    Ray From Cleveland Diamond Member

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    The problem with unions is that they virtually took over the industries where they existed. They told the company who they could hire, who they could fire, who they could or could not promote, what kind of wages and benefits their workers will get.

    Most of the things unions stood for in the day, government has taken over. Things like safety and overtime.

    One of the last few customers we have were union. The employees kicked them out. The top job in the shop opened up, and the union forced the company to give the job to it's most senior member. The problem was, the guy couldn't do the job. The employer had to come out and do the job for him.

    The other employees were pissed. Everybody wanted that job. But the employer was forbidden from giving it to the most qualified. He had to (by force) give it to the guy who was considered the most worthless in the company.

    So they woke up and voted the union out. The company fired that guy, and two other employees that were a drag on the business that they could never get rid of before. Now a qualified senior worker has that job, the employees are much happier, and the business is running better. Getting rid of their union was a win for everybody.
     
  10. AzogtheDefiler
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    AzogtheDefiler The Pale Orc Gold Supporting Member Supporting Member

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    I do not have an issue with Democrats. I have an issue with Leftists.
     

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