Dear Picaro I'd like to understand IN DEPTH where your thinking is coming from, so we can learn to communicate past this barrier. I know other people who also see the Constitution as arbitrary, diluted and lost to political forces, and not having authority to compel anyone to enforce these laws. I see that approach similar to not relying on math, because it's been hijacked by elitists who use it for a bunch of theorizing with no practical application or meaning. But that's just ONE LEVEL of math. The BASIC MATH applies to all transactions we do. I want to focus on where NATURAL LAWS are universal to people and DO govern and predict our democratic process. Can we focus there and find common language that DOESN'T depend on the areas that have been hijacked and distorted outside Constitutional laws and limits. I read your post/points that especially with Lincoln, the Constitutional laws and limits were overridden. When Lincoln ordered presses to be burned down and journalists hung, these were acts of war, not civilian peace time. So the same rules did not apply during war, when citizens were declared and treated as treasonous foreign enemies WITHOUT due process. In wartime, enemy combatants are not given the same due process as with civilians under civil and criminal laws. The problem today is similar, where people and leaders do not wait for due process to start treating other people and groups "as enemies" and disparage their rights. They are declared wrong and judged without "due process." Then actions are taken politically to further overstep those people's rights, justified for political expedience. So this is more like political warfare and not following laws of due process and democratic procedures. Just people abusing party and media to act as "judge jury and executioner" with no limits or separation of powers. This reaction is caused by THOSE people fearing rights and laws have been abridged, or are threatened with oppression. So it's a vicious cycle. Picaro I don't see how else we can break this cycle of abuse and oppression EXCEPT we agree to adhere to UNIVERSAL principles and process of democratic negotiations. That's why I urge everyone to respect basic principles of "natural laws" that define the democratic process between people. This is naturally occurring by way of our human nature as individuals who NATURALLY use our "free speech" and "right to petition/object" to try to address and resolve obstructions to our right to peace/security, freedom/free choice and justice. Picaro what part of these "natural laws" do you NOT BELIEVE exist or apply to all people? Aren't these common/universal principles people already follow by our nature: freedom of speech or of the press, right to assemble and to petition for redress of grievances, right of defense to protect ourselves from being deprived of life, liberty, property or exercise of our beliefs and free choice/will as indivduals to pursue what we want, need and believe in. Why isn't it clear that the purpose and process in the Constitution, especially the Bill of Rights, is to spell out and define this process so this can be PROTECTED for individuals? Even if violations occur, as you point out they have gotten way out of hand, we still APPLY the same Constitutional/democratic process to REDRESS THOSE GRIEVANCES and protect our individual and public interest from abuse and oppression by collective influences which these laws hold in check. Are you saying that because it's so far out of control there's no way to check the abuses? It's because we are divided that's why we aren't effective in stopping abuses. But by UNITING in agreement on these principles, that's what puts the abuses back in check. Picaro all the people making up the collective corporate interests and abusers of power are STILL "individuals" GOVERNED by the same natural laws and principles built into our human nature by CONSCIENCE. The way the CONSCIENCE responds is to unified agreements, invoking public authority of laws, then everyone is compelled to follow where we all AGREE. It is ESSENTIAL we come to points and principles of AGREEMENT. Like parents running a household, and have to STAND IN AGREEMENT or the kids run wild and take advantage of them bickering to get away with whatever. Or like a group of firefighters having to fight a blaze, and must work as a concerted TEAM. If they all give up or can't work together, SURE, the blaze spirals out of control. Picaro it's not that we the people don't have the power to stop the abuses. The problem is WE DO have this authority. So if we DON'T unify and invoke it, then nothing gets done. Govt is really waiting on us, we the people to get our act together, resolve issues to put together a game plan, and tell them what to do. If we don't, that's where Govt runs amok, like kids with a credit card and car keys. We have to take back responsibility instead of leaving the keys and card on the counter for anyone to run off with.