The Tea Party has become the Article V movement

Discussion in 'Tea Party' started by Votto, Nov 19, 2018.

  1. Votto
    Offline

    Votto Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    21,769
    Thanks Received:
    3,336
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +19,055
    There is nothing to fear with the Article V movement. First of all, we need 2/3 of the states to approve it, so it's not like you can put some crazy amendments in there that will sneak through. And as it stands now, the federal government essentially ignores the Constitution and federal laws as it is. Passing these amendments would be the first shot across the bow of the Federal government telling them that there will soon be a Constitutional crisis if they don't get their act together.

    The goal is for states to reclaim their power again. We want states to run their education system, their health care system, etc., all things the Executive Branch has taken over throughout the Progressive era. America should not be divided every Presidential election cycle with half the country wanting to secede or have a coup attempt like we just had with Trump. The country was not meant to have a king, and a king is what we have now. Let conservative and liberal states run their own affairs, with the Federal government playing referred like it was originally intended. Then step back and see which ideology works best as we compare liberal vs conservative states, verses letting the President run everything putting all our eggs in one basket, win/lose/ or draw.

    Conversely, the democrats want to do away with the Electoral College, which means population heavy states like New York and California will decide who will run the show indefinitely. In other words, the goal of the DNC to bring the country together is a one party takeover. Nothing else will do.
     
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2019
  2. Votto
    Offline

    Votto Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    21,769
    Thanks Received:
    3,336
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +19,055
    You are correct, most voters are ignorant and easily manipulated via the press and education system, etc. However, the beautiful thing about the Article V movement is, only educated voters will pursue it.

    Here is an example of how intelligent voters are.



    People are now just voting for an empty suit party member, nothing more.

    In addition, most people who vote only show up during a Presidential race and only are concerned with voting for the President. Why? It's because power has been centralized to the President and we have been conditioned to look to only one man for our "collective salvation".

    That is the bad news, the good news is that the Article V amendment relies only on state legislators being elected. I would say that 99.9% of the populace has no idea who they even are and have left that box blank as a result.

    But it is the same as it was during the Revolution. Most Americans did not support the war and not involved in the war. Those that want freedom must work within the minority and do their best to secure liberty once again.
     
  3. Picaro
    Offline

    Picaro Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2010
    Messages:
    15,235
    Thanks Received:
    2,024
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    Texas
    Ratings:
    +10,147
    If I did that kind of work, I would just guest post on a blog somewhere; few people here are actually serious about anything, just here to peddle their pet crackpot theories, and a waste of time to try and engage in serious discussions. This thread is an example, for instance the belief that the 5th A. causes the problem of corporate power. It doesn't, it's the radical abuses of the 14th that is the major source of 'corporate personhood' and the even worse abuse of 'judicial review' cases from 1864 up to the early 1900's.


    The ;middle class' has lost any ability to govern itself; it demographics is largely made up of dope addled loons who glorify mindless self-indulgence over everything else, and that includes both the sniveling, spoiled Burb Brat Left Whiners and their fellow travelers on the 'Social Darwinist Right whiners. neither wing producing anything but sociopaths and assorted deviants who all agree on destroying the country via various schemes, all revolving around personal whims and selfishness. They just use different rhetoric, is all; it isn't only the left's propaganda hacks who use the Gramsci For Dummies tactics laid out by Alinsky.

    You seem to think it the Amendments that are the problem, so you're not as interested in 'a common language' as you think you are. And again, these natural laws' don't exist, except in academic circle jerks. Mostly they come from a list of morals derived from ancient Greek philosophies through the Judaeo- Christian paradigms and that centuries long social revolution, Thomas Of Aquina, and co., to the Protestant revolutions, through the early evangelicals of the First and Second Great Awakenings. A sort of 'Great Third Great Awakening' took place in the late 1800's early 1900s as well, but it was weak, too weak to do anything but slow down the general trends.

    See, your first problems that need to be resolved are rolling back social revolutions; without those, on amount of bullshit talk is going to be effective. This cite says it best:

    .... the overlap between the Senate's rise within the governmental structure and the parallel ascent of corporations within the U.S. economy was unmistakable. The two fed on each other from the late 1860's to the early 1900's when corporations - indeed, wealth itself - began to be curbed. A half century earlier, during the post-Civil War decade, businessmen had been extorted by more simplistic forms of government corruption - New York's Tweed Ring, the Whiskey Ring, the Customhouse Ring, and suchlike. This produced the half-reformism wryly summarized by New York's Horatio Seymour:

    "Our People want men in office who will not steal, but who will not interfere with those in private enterprise who do."

    pages 238-239, Wealth and Democracy---- by Kevin Phillips, Broadway Books, New York 2002



    And therein lies the differences in the 'basic math you see and what 'basic math' reality forces on even defining the necessary issues correctly. American government does actually represent American values; that's what nobody wants to admit, and why all the bloviating and high minded 'language' just hides corrupt beliefs itself. That's what ideologists are for, after all, to hide bullshit behind some self-endowed moral authority or other.
     
  4. emilynghiem
    Offline

    emilynghiem Constitutionalist / Universalist Supporting Member

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2010
    Messages:
    21,767
    Thanks Received:
    3,002
    Trophy Points:
    290
    Location:
    National Freedmen's Town District
    Ratings:
    +8,359
    Dear Votto If people are afraid, that is a REAL response.
    instead of denying the fact there is distrust of parties abusing the process,
    why not acknowledge that problem up front?
    And write up an agreement, from the start, that the Constitution
    is not going to be revised without a consensus between the various
    parties, and the POINT of addressing Constitutional process is to
    fix the problems with Government that HAVEN'T been following the
    Constitutional structures, laws and limits, and process. It's to correct
    the contested programs developed through federal govt that aren't
    checked or authorized by the Constitution, and try to get things back
    in line. If we have an agreement up front what the purpose of the process
    is, to get BACK to an agreed standard and agreement to comply with it,
    then THAT would prevent the problem that is being fear. That fear is
    real, so let's address what's causing it instead of acting like there's no real risk.

    Of course there is.

    It's like a game show where you are asked to bet all the money
    you have credited now "on the chance" that you could double it.
    But if you lose, you lose all what you had and that means
    being left with nothing.

    However, if we set up the process where you get to keep what
    you have, and only ADD more that reinforces that, then you
    have nothing to lose. How do we set up an agreed process
    where we don't go backwards but correct the problems that
    should have been prevented or resolved in the first place by
    STICKING to the spirit and standards of the Constitution.
     
  5. Votto
    Offline

    Votto Gold Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2012
    Messages:
    21,769
    Thanks Received:
    3,336
    Trophy Points:
    280
    Ratings:
    +19,055
    I personally think they should begin with two amendments, which are term limits for Congress and a balanced budget amendment.

    Why? Because over 80% of Americans favor these when polled. Keep it simple and popular, otherwise, the whole thing will probably fall on its face.

    That should absolve all fear about it.
     
  6. Porter Rockwell
    Offline

    Porter Rockwell VIP Member

    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2018
    Messages:
    2,796
    Thanks Received:
    122
    Trophy Points:
    75
    Ratings:
    +929
    You already have term limits. It's called an election. We got our first Muslim into the White House with term limits. He promised to transform America. Are you satisfied with how screwed up he left it?

    Balanced Budget Amendment - yeah. Let's put this into perspective:

    Let us say a man has $100,000 of debt. He makes his minimum monthly payments and is balancing his budget. But, wait, he needs a new car. So, now he has to raise his debt ceiling AND take on another job to afford the car. His new job allows him to pay for the car and balance his budget, but he never really pays down his debt. So every time he needs something in addition to what he has, he has to find a way to get more money.

    In the context of government, they would always be raising your taxes. It's been quite a number of years since I checked, but decades ago, the average American was spending over 55 percent of all they made on taxes. The only real solution there is to get rid of the Internal Revenue Service, the Federal Reserve (which is no more "federal" than Federal Express) and return to constitutional taxation.

    The way it's rigged - you can NEVER pay down the federal deficit. Balancing the budget is just a way for Republicans to counter Democrats with a stalling technique that resolves nothing.
     
  7. ChristopherABrown'
    Offline

    ChristopherABrown' Rookie

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2018
    Messages:
    26
    Thanks Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    1
    Ratings:
    +3
    Those are two common sense amendments, but I have real concerns about ANY amendments being constitutional with the current batch of legislators. And Article V requires that all amendments have constitutional intent.

    Discussing amendments without determining how to make sure legislators pass no unconstitutional amendment is a primary need of the peoples.
     

Share This Page